That’s what John of the Cross would call the dark night of the spirit, the last phase of your life. And it’s also very clear in the mystics, John of the Cross. So it’s a concept I got from Nouwen, but it’s very deep in scripture, like Jesus who gives his death in his passion. During our generative years you’re struggling to give your life away, but then how do you give your death away? So I actually got the idea from Henri Nouwen, his book, Our Greatest Gift where he coined that expression “how do you give your death away”. Like fundamentally, what’s the message of discipleship and then Sacred Fire, how do you give your life away? How do you spend your generative years and so on? Now the book I want to write is a book about how do you give your death away? How do you live your last years so that your goodbye to this planet and your family is really something that leaves everybody in deep peace. So the Holy Longing is a book about basically, how do you get your life together. Ron: Karen, as you know, I wrote the books, The Holy Longing and Sacred Fire, but clearly as the first two books in the trilogy. Tell us a bit about that because, in a sense, that really struck a note with me. But there’s a book that you’re picking up now that you feel will kind of complete that. Like you’re going to finish this wonderful trilogy, Holy Longing and then Sacred Fire. Karen: I found it fascinating what you’re choosing to do. And so it’s a shift in work not a retirement. So it’s kind of the end of all the hours I have to put into administration. So now I can go back full-time to writing, to reading, to researching, to helping students. So I’m leaving administration, which I’ve done now for almost 30 years or basically 30 years, where I’ve tried to keep writing and doing some academics. And in fact, the interesting thing is, the work we’re doing, like you’re doing in spirituality, you’re much more effective at 70 than you were at 50 or 30. Ron Rolheiser: You know, in our business-and you’re in the same business of spirituality- we never really retire, we just move to different phases. Can you tell us what has captured your heart and mind at this point? With retirement you’re kind of at a new beginning yourself. I love your books and they are full of wisdom that leads us into the presence of a loving and compassionate God. Please put up with it, stick with it because what Ron has to offer is really worthwhile. So some of the questions will be a bit garbled. Today’s talk with Ron is so worth listening to, but up front, I need to give you an apology. That fact that he has been where we are, whether in a hole or on a mountain top, in love or in pain, in suffering or in joy, whatever the situation, wherever we may find ourselves, we sense that Ron Rolheiser has been there himself, and that he knows the way that leads to God. At a recent celebration honoring Ron’s retirement as president of the Oblate School of Theology in San Antonio, his editor Robert Ellsberg summed up Ron’s ministry in this way: “The impact of his writing, his retreats and his ministry comes from his deep knowledge and identification with the human condition.” Ron is the author of 14 books and a person I consider to be the leading scholar and interpreter of Henri Nouwen. I am delighted to have the opportunity to speak with Father Ron Rolheiser. Now, let me take a moment to introduce today’s guest. Through them we continue to introduce audiences to Henri’s writings, his encouragement and of course, his reminder that each of us is a beloved child of God. We invite you to share the daily meditations and these podcasts with your friends and family. Each week we endeavor to bring you an interview with someone who’s been deeply influenced by the writings of Henri Nouwen or perhaps even a recording of Henri himself. Our goal at the Henri Nouwen Society is to extend the rich, spiritual legacy of Henri to audiences around the world. Welcome to a new episode of Henri Nouwen: Now, and Then. I’m the Executive Director of the Henri Nouwen Society.
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